The Wack is Back!

The Wack is Back!  Make that plural.  They’re back in force.

The Right Wing wackos that were out in droves during the Presidential campaign are back. They’re weirder! They’re more vicious! They’re pretending to be “grassroots” while many are special-interest funded! And they’re trying to derail healthcare reform!

What a fun bunch of kids!

Maggie Thatcher and Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. would be proud!

To be honest, I believe “Original Female Poster” and the others cited below when they say they used their own resources. But there are others who aren’t, and there’s a track record of these faux grassrooters in the “tea bag revolt” movement. Recent news reports have shown direct links and coordination. This is not the grassroots movement they claim it is.

More to the point is the attitude of absolute conviction and certainty that only they – and Fox News Corp. – can be right, and that the duly elected President, our elected representatives, and the vast majority of people who want healthcare reform are cons or dupes.

This modified transcript from an exchange on a popular social media site illustrates that point. It also made writing this latest blog entry easy and fun – they did most of the work for me their own selves – which is after all, the most important thing, right?

Although I don’t know the others, I do know the “Original Female Poster”. Her identity, like all the others, has been edited out in favor of a generic label.

Hope you find this enlightening.

Sincerely,

Your Humble Narrator

==========================

“Original Female Poster” posted a link.

France Fights Universal Care’s High Cost – WSJ.com

Source: online.wsj.com

Soaring costs are pushing France’s universal health-care system into crisis. As the U.S. fights over whether to be more like France, France is trying to borrow U.S. tactics.

“Female Poster #1”

Seems they know more about this and are showing us that gov’t health care in not the answer! Thanks (“Original Female Poster #2”).!~

“Male Poster #1”

Apparently, the French government has been deliberately cutting back funding to deliberately turn their health care system into a bonanza for private corporations.

I wonder if the big health companies have been floating some money around politicians there?

Naaaah. They wouldn’t do something like that, would they ? 🙂

Your Humble Narrator

My ex-wife and son lived in Norway, and while she was between jobs, he needed an emergency operation. No delays, no mess, no bills. Norway’s economy is thriving – their financial rules didn’t allow banks and securities firms to engage in gross fiscal stupidity without oversight – and their health system is sound. Hmmm… maybe a sound overall government fiscal policy and social policy.

Germany is suffering record unemployment and fiscal cramps; but they’re not going toward “free market” free-for-all in their economy: they’re ratcheting down the rules on overly adventurous banks and securities traders who cash in when the markets good by investing the public’s money, then turn to the government for bailouts at the tax payer’s expense when their bets don’t pay off, collect their bonuses and leave investors holding the bag. And their healthcare system isn’t imploding.

(Germany, along with France, that other socialist gulag according to the Rightsters, seem to be emerging from the recession, according to recent reports.  Stimulus that worked without allowing massive layoffs and national health plans?  Who woulda thunk it?)

The US is the only major industrialized nation that doesn’t have a public option. We spend more on health care and rank lower than some third tier economies. We pay more, get less, and cover fewer. The people who HAVE coverage can get decent though not excellent health care in this country; but I know several people who are trapped in jobs they really hate because they desperately need the benefits. With a public option, they would not be locked into that condition. People without coverage can look forward to a life of public clinics, emergency rooms and charity care, unless they’re poor enough to qualify for government welfare care.  And guess who pays for that?

If government’s so incompetent at running anything, put up a public option: no one will take it, right?

“Original Female Poster”

Gregg, this is the same argument I have day in and day out with people who don’t understand why we don’t like Obamacare. I won’t have this conversation with anyone who hasn’t read the ACTUAL BILL – all 1,018 pages. Then we can talk. And I don’t mean listening to the flat out LIES from the White House regarding the contents of the bill. I mean … the ACTUAL BILL that I will happily send to you.

The WSJ called Obamacare “the worst piece of legislation they have ever seen in Congress” and it is. I am all for health care reform, starting with the elimination of fraud. And I have no problem providing insurace and or health care for the REAL number of people without it. 11 Million LEGAL citizens. But it’s ridiculous to destroy the best health care in the entire world for something that can be fixed another way.

Obamacare has nothing to do with what you think it does. And you CAN’T keep your own insurance and doctor. That’s a lie. And healthcare will be severely rationed.

Your Humble Narrator

I’m interested in your analysis of the 1,018 page document. I could find no reference to the statement you quoted. If you have a citation, I’d love to see it.

The WSJ is a BUSINESS journal, and not unbiased. This is an ideological dogfight, a partisan bar brawl, as noted by the “Waterloo” comments of Republican legislator DeMint.

Rationing and euthanasia of the elderly are fear buzz words. That’s what the GOP lives on these days, and there’s a huge industry built on the politics of fear. You might want to read the NY Times bestseller, THE WRECKING CREW, by Thomas Franks, for an in-depth history of that phenomenon If the conversation is limited to those who’ve read the bill AND understand it, then I’ll live by that.

“Original Female Poster”

They’re not buzz words Gregg. They’re very real. You need to stop watching people like Rachel Maddow for your news. And, by the way, it’s about 50% DEMOCRATS at the protests, in fact the genius dems used a video of a DEMOCRAT to show the horrors of people asking questions of their … Read Morereps, which they are entitled to since they pay them. This isn’t idealogical and it seems rather odd to make comment on a document you have never read. Why would you do that?

Common sense tells anyone with forethought that adding an entire beaurcratic staff to determine which benefits you might get and when is a mess. And adding millions of people to health care with no added medical staff, doctors, etc. means for anyone thinking that health care will be rationed. But, of course, they took care of that and put it in the bill for us. I also think it’s rather silly to cut 500 Billion in Medicare for Seniors, so that we can pay for free abortions, free sex change operations, etc. you name it for 20 Million ILLEGAL ALIENS. Why does that make sense? My mother gets to die for that? Not going to happen. Ever. I did speak to one of the Blue Dog Dems who said he was trying to get the ILLEGALS out of the bill, but Pelosi and her crew won’t budge. It’s that La Raza voting pool I guess. Never mind the will of the people, or what’s right and good for America.

“Original Female Poster”

No conversation is limited to anything. But if this is a GOP attack because American is speaking and doesn’t want the Obamacare bill, then, yes I urge you to get up to speed with those protesting. We already debunked the filthy lies by Maddow about the protestors being funded by the GOP. That’s just pathetic.

“Female Poster #2”

hahahaha Socializism never works. And you seriously think Governement Healthcare won’t still be sending people to the Free clinics? Give me a break! The long hours waiting in the ER the months that will pass waiting for an operation. Why won’t the Government take this plan? Do you NOT listen to Obama’s past remarks about his plan? Really? Have you even bothered to READ the bill? We need Healthcare Reform, But no way like this!

“Female Poster #2”

Obama is USING that FEAR! He is NOT listening to the People! He works for us! I can not believe you people still drinking the damn Kool-Aid! Get real! And YES I do know how the Government RUNS healthcare! They make cuts on it and you can’t find a Dentist who will take it! It’s not easy finding a good Doctor to take it either. NO WHERE in the Constitution does it give the Government the RIGHT to take over our Healthcare! Stop Watching Rachel Maddow and research and get the real facts! WOW…

“Female Poster #2”

Obama is USING that FEAR! He is NOT listening to the People! He works for us! I can not believe you people still drinking the damn Kool-Aid! Get real! And YES I do know how the Government RUNS healthcare! They make cuts on it and you can’t find a Dentist who will take it! It’s not easy finding a good Doctor to take it either. NO WHERE in the Constitution does it give the Government the RIGHT to take over our Healthcare! Stop Watching Rachel Maddow and research and get the real facts! WOW…

“Female Poster #2”

WOW Bett is he that ignorant? The Congress NOR the Obamaman has READ THE BILL

“Female Poster #2”

OMG I haven’t read your comments BETT and we said the same thing hahahaha

“Female Poster #3”

Sorry I showed up lated for the debate.

Guess Moscoe ran out of MSLSD talking points.

SNIFF

“Female Poster #2”

Well in case he comes back maybe he will read this, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/what_right_to_health_care_97742.html

Your Humble Narrator

No, (“Female Poster #3”). I just get tired of listening to people who seem unable to stick to a point till it’s resolved without engaging in personal attacks and talking with certainty about things of which they have no knowledge or personal experience. If you’re up to it, take your best shot.

As for (“Female Poster #2”)’s article, it’s another piece of puffery without documentation. When he cites the “ruinous lawsuits that force medical specialists into insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year” it shows not only bad syntax but also a complete ignorance, or more likely a desire to ignore the fact that market returns had a far greater impact on malpractice premiums than lawsuit awards (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYD/is_5_38/ai_98830098/). If he’d submitted an article of that quality to any reputable journal, they’d have circular filed it. I suspect he will have a long career as an associate professor – or maybe a community college instructor – if that’s what he publishes.

Your Humble Narrator

As for the alleged debunking of organized Right involvement with the “spontaneous grass roots protests”…

http://dallaspeacecenter.org/node/4457

“FreedomWorks is chaired by former Congressman Dick Armey, a Texas Republican who joined the prominent law firm DLA Piper. Armey also became co-chair of Citizens for a Sound Economy, which in 2004 merged with Empower America to become FreedomWorks….

“FreedomWorks launched its campaign to block health care reform earlier this year — the same year DLA Piper received $830,000 to lobby on behalf of the pharmaceutical firm Medicines Co., according to the Center for Responsive Politics. The pharmaceutical industry has been spending millions of dollars on lobbying efforts in recent months to influence the health care reform debate.

FreedomWorks has come under fire before for what critics call “astroturfing” — creating what appear to be grassroots campaigns that in fact represent corporate interests.

“For example, the website Angryrenter.com was launched last year during the debate over the mortgage crisis and claimed to represent “millions of renters standing up for our rights.” But a WALL STRRET JOURNAL investigation found that the site was actually created by FreedomWorks.”

So when someone claims a grassroots basis for widespread campaigns … Read Morethat are remarkably similar in tactics and message, look behind the curtain and see who’s pulling the levers. The health care reform opposition is being funded by two of the largest special interests in this nation: big pharma and insurance, neither of which wants to see the gravy train grind to a halt. When it’s cheaper to import American drugs from Canada than to buy them here, when government health care is precluded from negotiating pricing based on volume, you know something stinks in American health care.

“Female Poster #4”

@Gregg, I can find no pleasant way to say this, so here goes… as far as these protests go, you have your head up your ass. I guess you haven’t figured out yet, that the people who are really the AstroTurf are the cadres of thugs that have been paid from funds of upwards of $87 million by Soros & Company. You know, the ones wearing the purple and … Read Morered shirts, carrying the four-color laminated placards delivered, handed out the day of the event? The ones that are dimwitted enough to use video of their own throttling a black man for handing out Gadsden flags in Mo. to claim that anti-Obamacare protesters were the violent ones? And just who went to jail and who went to the hospital with broken ribs? Sorry ignorance I can take, but an ignorant elitist like you, I have no patience for…

“Female Poster #4”

I MADE MY OWN SIGNS, IS USED MY OWN GAS, I TOOK MY OWN TIME AWAY FROM MY BUSINESS, AND MY WHOLE HEART STANDS AGAINST THIS ABOMINATION….

“Female Poster #4”

And – BTW – a moving picture is worth a billion words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3QeH-z2CbU

“Female Poster #2”

(“Female Poster #4”).. There is no way of getting through to people like him. He is going to believe the Liberal MSM. I have read actual parts of the Bill and it is an Obamanation for sure. The left can’t handle that we are rising against this Government controlled disaster. Healthcare is not a right given by Our Constitution. It will Cost Trillions of Taxpayer … Read Moremoney. They are going to cover the illegals. Look what that has already done to our Economy. I don’t even understand why Bett keeps this guy on her friends list.

“Female Poster #2”

I know me myself and more people than I can count have nothing whatsoever to do with Freedom Works.

“Female Poster #4”

(“Female Poster #2”) – Ditto everything you said. Thanks! Our Republic is on life support and Dr. Evil has his hand on the plug with the Emanuel Bros. standing at the ready to “clean up” the scene. I am so disgusted, I’m gonna need a spittoon next to my chair.

Your Humble Narrator

“There is no way of getting through to people like him. He is going to believe the Liberal MSM”.

(“Female Poster #2”), try standing in front of a mirror when you speak those words, because they’re just as applicable to you and yours.

“Gregg, I can find no pleasant way to say this, so here goes… as far as these protests go, you have your head up your ass. I guess you haven’t figured out yet, that the people who are really the AstroTurf are the cadres of thugs that have been paid from funds of upwards of $87 million by Soros & Company.”…

(“Female Poster #4”), as above, except change the corporations to virtually every major US and multinational corporation who have funded Gucci Gulch for decades.

When you can do nothing but vilify your opposition, you’ve clearly run out of arguments for your position.

“Female Poster #4”

Ummm…but I thought the new plantation master was going to do things “differently,” you remember that “change” thing, hmmmm?

Your Humble Narrator

If you lot are so unhappy with the state of the Nation, you might want to look at the experience of the only country in modern times where the ideals of the far Right have existed: South Africa.

It required a subjugated near-slave class to support the ability of the white minority live that life. Early support for the extreme U.S. Right’s organization and development of its fundraising machine came from the South African government when the regime was under extreme pressure due to international sanctions.

You can read about this history – heavily documented with extensive annotation and research – in Thomas Franks’ THE WRECKING CREW. He didn’t dream it up, he just collected the existing documentation from scholarly and press sources, as opposed to the previously cited associate professor from Duke….

If you can cite another nation existing today where those values are in existence, I’d love to hear about it.

Your Humble Narrator

Well, apparently you guys think he is, else what’s the sturm und drang about?

“Female Poster #4”

Milton Friedman had it right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Your Humble Narrator

Milton Friedman” LOL. He’s about as credible as Alan Greenspan. The Einstein and Ford examples are perfect examples of specious arguments: Einstein worked in an academic environment supported by public funds, Ford worked in a controlled market regulated by government with a growing middle class that only appeared with the rise of the Industrial Age.

Who put a satellite in orbit first? Without the jaw-dropping, spine chilling feat of those soulless Commies, we would likely not have gone to the moon, or if we did, not for decades to come.

Anyone who thinks that ANY form of government, philosophy or religion – particularly their own – has all the answers, definitely has their head right where you suggested mine was. …

So where does that leave you? And your head?

“Female Poster #4”

@Gregg – What is your definition of “Far Right?” Are you saying that by railing against Socialistic policy, that we are touting slavery as a solution?

“Original Female Poster”

Gregg, your comments are ridiculous, sorry. That moronic shit from Rachel MadCow about FreedomWorks has already been debunked. I can’t believe someone comes to a thread, insults people, and uses such journalistic hacks to do it. Please at least once and a while go to real facts, like the actual contents of the legislation. Bashing the GOP is … Read Moreold, tired crap and the normal people ar moving past those overall, blanket hate devices. I’m not coming back to this thread because I can’t argue with someione who spews lies, inaccuracies and hate. Good luck destroying America.

PS Who the F**k do you think you are? Really? So someone like you thinks you have the right to silence dissent by the people who pay for your free ride? We’re supposed to STFU, pay the bills, hand over all of our income, rights and freedoms and if we open our mouths about it we are UnAmerican, astroturfing scum? My God, just who the hell do you think you are? You’re what’s wrong with America, that’s what.

Your Humble Narrator

A quick and convenient answer would be that the far Right is the crowd saying… “If you let the Liberals have their way, the sky will fall.” When you leave no room for anything but your way, you become extreme. Reagan pushed tax reform; but the guy who crafted the foundation of the legislation was a senior Democrat from New Jersey, Bill Bradley. And you may decry Democrats and Republicans equally; but until you get a party that can swing some clout, you’re pretty much SOL.

“Female Poster #4”

@Gregg…yeah…Commies put the first satellite in orbit alright, all the while the citizens were standing in lines for basic necessity. How the hell is that justice?

Your Humble Narrator

That moronic shit about Freedomworks came from the Wall Street Journal, not Rachel Maddow. What’s your source for the debunking?

Insults people? Have I indicated people had their heads up their asses or were idiots or morons? No. But I’ve gotten plenty of it from the other side. As I said, when all you can do is insult or vilify the opposition, you’ve pretty much run out of arguments.

Your Humble Narrator

When were you talking about justice, (“Female Poster #4”)? Was that when you were proposing how to get basic healthcare coverage for millions of LEGAL Americans? I may have missed your plan for change.

“Female Poster #4”

My source for debunking is showing up on the scene, asshole.

Your Humble Narrator

Re: Milton Friedman http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-chimonetarism.htm

“Monetarism reached the peak of its popularity during the 1970s. In the 80s, however, it suffered a sudden reversal of fortune, and today economists generally agree that “monetarism is dead.” Friedman stands virtually alone now among top economists in his belief that it contains … Read Moreany merit…. Monetarism was tried in Great Britain during the 80s, under Margaret Thatcher, and it proved to be a disaster. For almost seven years, the Bank of England tried its best to make it work. According to monetarist theory, the British economy should have enjoyed low inflation and high stability. But in fact, it went berserk. The economy sank into a deep recession, while lead economic indicators zigged and zagged. Although inflation came down, this was at the price of rising unemployment, which soared from 5.4 to 11.8 percent. Between 1979 and 1984, manufacturing output fell 10 percent, and manufacturing investment fell 30 percent.”

“Female Poster #4”

Gregg, it is apparent that your are in favor of Communism/Socialism or whatever you want to call it. So, pack your bags, we’ll take up a collection, and send you first class travel to Cuba, alrighty then?

“Female Poster #4”

Patriot – OUT!

Your Humble Narrator

No, (“Female Poster #4”), I’m not a socialist or a commie. My family’s from Kentucky, Oklahoma and Texas, those Red States. I paid my own way through two degrees at USC, which is not a cheap school. I started working at 13 and have continued since.

Have you EVER been to any of the countries whose systems you guys criticize? France? Italy? Scandinavia? Sampled the life and talked to the people? Had occasion to use the systems? I have. So, I HAVE showed up on the scene. I’ll omit the expletive you inserted in your post.

If you want to take up the collection, I’ll go visit Cuba. Unlike some people, I think first hand knowledge is an asset, not a liability….

Like I said, (“Female Poster #4”), when your only fallback is insult and vilification, you’ve pretty much blown your wad.

“Female Poster #4”

My cousin was in Cuba about 7 years ago. She brought back some of the most beautiful pictures of squalor and misery.

Your Humble Narrator

My brother inlaw went to Cuba with his kids and brought back pictures and video of amazing people who’ve had to struggle under a totalitarian regime, but have a fabulous culture. He helped get the film BUENA VISTA SOCIAL CLUB, about legendary Cuban musicians, distributed worldwide.

What’s your point? I never said Cuba was heaven. Why don’t you pack your bags for South Africa? Oops. They don’t have that lifestyle anymore. Guess you’ll just have to make do here.

Your Humble Narrator

By the way, my brother inlaw just died at age 50 of gastric cancer.

He had access to the best medicine available in this country, and in 7 months he went from a vibrant, athletic, successful, happy guy who was at the top of his game to a skeletal victim of a horrid disease. Money was not an object.

What would someone among the working poor in this country – legal citizens without coverage – have had in their time of need?…

We shouldn’t be wasting time over how it gets paid for. A great nation like this one should be able to provide that level of care for all its citizens, not just its government workers, military and legislators. If you’re a real entrepreneur, you create more where nothing existed, you make the pie larger, not fight over the scraps.

Or as that famous Communist Bobby Kennedy said, you don’t ask why, you ask why not?

======================

Two observations before we sign off.

1) When they get stumped by a real argument, the wackos throw in a subject change but never come back to the issue at hand.

2) As I’ve noted frequently, when you can only vilify or insult your opposition, it means you’ve run out of ideas or facts. That happened frequently, and I was on the receiving end of a lot of nastiness.

Thanks for your attention.Hope you found this educational, and that it perhaps inspires you to take action now in this critical time.

Not only do we Progressives have to fight the battle against the opposition, we also have to hold our own guys’ feet to the fire, so they don’t trade away the farm, gutting the legislation and leaving us with a garden patch spread thin to make it look like a real farm.

May the Higher Power of your choice guide you to recommit to positive action. Whichever side you’re on, action is what moves us ahead.